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	<title>Comments on: Copywriters: Guilty as Charged?</title>
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	<link>http://www.ryanhealy.com/copywriters-guilty-as-charged/</link>
	<description>Ryan Healy on Copywriting, Advertising &#38; Business Growth</description>
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		<title>By: Marya Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.ryanhealy.com/copywriters-guilty-as-charged/comment-page-1/#comment-9521</link>
		<dc:creator>Marya Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2010 02:24:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ryanhealy.com/?p=1692#comment-9521</guid>
		<description>Shel, by saying you disagree with me and immediately qualifying that statement with &quot;For me, being an ethical business owner means I want to work with ethical clients&quot;, I hope you&#039;re not implying I don&#039;t care about ethics? Make no mistake: I too have had red flags go off and turned down or canceled lucrative jobs on the spot as a result; and I take the greatest care to work only with ethical clients. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I just don&#039;t see a need to publicly parade my ethics *before* someone violates them - it&#039;s something that should be taken for granted as a business norm. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;My point is that legal responsibilities define ethical behavior as a standard practice. To flout that is usually to defy the law and descend into the shady side automatically.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shel, by saying you disagree with me and immediately qualifying that statement with &#8220;For me, being an ethical business owner means I want to work with ethical clients&#8221;, I hope you&#39;re not implying I don&#39;t care about ethics? Make no mistake: I too have had red flags go off and turned down or canceled lucrative jobs on the spot as a result; and I take the greatest care to work only with ethical clients. </p>
<p>I just don&#39;t see a need to publicly parade my ethics *before* someone violates them &#8211; it&#39;s something that should be taken for granted as a business norm. </p>
<p>My point is that legal responsibilities define ethical behavior as a standard practice. To flout that is usually to defy the law and descend into the shady side automatically.</p>
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		<title>By: Why your products should be like ladders &#124; Anita Ashland: Autoresponder Copywriter</title>
		<link>http://www.ryanhealy.com/copywriters-guilty-as-charged/comment-page-1/#comment-9505</link>
		<dc:creator>Why your products should be like ladders &#124; Anita Ashland: Autoresponder Copywriter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 15:49:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ryanhealy.com/?p=1692#comment-9505</guid>
		<description>[...] copywriters wonder how much they have contributed to the more negative aspects of internet [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] copywriters wonder how much they have contributed to the more negative aspects of internet [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Robert (Bob) Medak</title>
		<link>http://www.ryanhealy.com/copywriters-guilty-as-charged/comment-page-1/#comment-9506</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert (Bob) Medak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 07:54:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ryanhealy.com/?p=1692#comment-9506</guid>
		<description>I have turned down work because of what I feel are ethical reasons. I also have signed the &quot;Business Ethics Pledge&quot; located at &lt;a href=&quot;http://site.business-ethics-pledge.org/read-the-pledge/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://site.business-ethics-pledge.org/read-the...&lt;/a&gt; after reading and reviewing &quot;Guerrilla Marketing Goes Green.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have turned down work because of what I feel are ethical reasons. I also have signed the &#8220;Business Ethics Pledge&#8221; located at <a href="http://site.business-ethics-pledge.org/read-the-pledge/">http://site.business-ethics-pledge.org/read-the&#8230;</a> after reading and reviewing &#8220;Guerrilla Marketing Goes Green.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: shelhorowitz</title>
		<link>http://www.ryanhealy.com/copywriters-guilty-as-charged/comment-page-1/#comment-9499</link>
		<dc:creator>shelhorowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 02:36:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ryanhealy.com/?p=1692#comment-9499</guid>
		<description>Great discussion! I disagree with Marya on &quot;Copywriting is not so much about ethics as about law. What is a copywriter&#039;s legal responsibility? After that, your ethics are your own.&quot; For me, being an ethical business owner means I want to work with ethical clients. When I get a copywriting inquiry, I send back a standard response that outlines several reasons why I might turn down a job: values at odds with my own, crappy product, etc.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;To me, the freedom to do that is crucial.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I have also started jobs for clients and then had red flags go off. I remember telling a client with a book of essays that I was pretty sure one of the essays was not hers, and explaining the rules of plagiarism. Another time, I called up a long-time client and said that he was putting both his doctoral and his masters&#039; degrees (in theology, no less)--both of which I&#039;d assisted with--at risk because I could tell he had plagiarized and his advisors were going to be able to tell also. He was grateful, and the work stopped until he redid that section.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Interestingly, I have found that taking a strong stand on ethics has been *very good* for my business, especially once I started writing books and giving speeches on the topic (e.g.,  my eighth book, Guerrilla Marketing Goes Green: Winning Strategies to Improve Your Profits and Your Planet (co-authored with Jay Conrad Levinson), &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.guerrillamarketinggoesgreen.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;www.guerrillamarketinggoesgreen.com&lt;/a&gt; )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great discussion! I disagree with Marya on &#8220;Copywriting is not so much about ethics as about law. What is a copywriter&#39;s legal responsibility? After that, your ethics are your own.&#8221; For me, being an ethical business owner means I want to work with ethical clients. When I get a copywriting inquiry, I send back a standard response that outlines several reasons why I might turn down a job: values at odds with my own, crappy product, etc.</p>
<p>To me, the freedom to do that is crucial.</p>
<p>I have also started jobs for clients and then had red flags go off. I remember telling a client with a book of essays that I was pretty sure one of the essays was not hers, and explaining the rules of plagiarism. Another time, I called up a long-time client and said that he was putting both his doctoral and his masters&#39; degrees (in theology, no less)&#8211;both of which I&#39;d assisted with&#8211;at risk because I could tell he had plagiarized and his advisors were going to be able to tell also. He was grateful, and the work stopped until he redid that section.</p>
<p>Interestingly, I have found that taking a strong stand on ethics has been *very good* for my business, especially once I started writing books and giving speeches on the topic (e.g.,  my eighth book, Guerrilla Marketing Goes Green: Winning Strategies to Improve Your Profits and Your Planet (co-authored with Jay Conrad Levinson), <a href="http://www.guerrillamarketinggoesgreen.com">http://www.guerrillamarketinggoesgreen.com</a> )</p>
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		<title>By: anitaashland</title>
		<link>http://www.ryanhealy.com/copywriters-guilty-as-charged/comment-page-1/#comment-9486</link>
		<dc:creator>anitaashland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Apr 2010 04:09:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ryanhealy.com/?p=1692#comment-9486</guid>
		<description>Your scenario #4  reminds me that as a copywriter it sometimes seems like I&#039;m selling feelings instead of products and this has weighed on me at times, even though the product isn&#039;t crappy. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Does the world really need another product about X? Or is it just part of the never-ending festival of hype where we point people to the newest shiny thing rather than encouraging them to use their own resources (i.e. encouraging Ralph Wolves instead of Sam Sheepdogs :-)?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The upside is that it&#039;s possible for a copywriter to have a positive impact in a marketing campaign, even if the product isn&#039;t all that necessary or is even borderline crappy.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Also, I&#039;ve taken encouragement from what Brian Eno said last year in an interview about  how he works with U2 in the studio: &quot;&#039;They feed on their own excitement... the point is to keep offering ladders that people can climb up to another place and then you can throw the ladder away afterwards, it doesn&#039;t matter.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So even if it seems like we&#039;re selling feelings or it&#039;s not the greatest product in the world, as long as it&#039;s a ladder, then that&#039;s OK.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your scenario #4  reminds me that as a copywriter it sometimes seems like I&#39;m selling feelings instead of products and this has weighed on me at times, even though the product isn&#39;t crappy. </p>
<p>Does the world really need another product about X? Or is it just part of the never-ending festival of hype where we point people to the newest shiny thing rather than encouraging them to use their own resources (i.e. encouraging Ralph Wolves instead of Sam Sheepdogs :-)?</p>
<p>The upside is that it&#39;s possible for a copywriter to have a positive impact in a marketing campaign, even if the product isn&#39;t all that necessary or is even borderline crappy.</p>
<p>Also, I&#39;ve taken encouragement from what Brian Eno said last year in an interview about  how he works with U2 in the studio: &#8220;&#39;They feed on their own excitement&#8230; the point is to keep offering ladders that people can climb up to another place and then you can throw the ladder away afterwards, it doesn&#39;t matter.&#8221;</p>
<p>So even if it seems like we&#39;re selling feelings or it&#39;s not the greatest product in the world, as long as it&#39;s a ladder, then that&#39;s OK.</p>
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		<title>By: John Deck</title>
		<link>http://www.ryanhealy.com/copywriters-guilty-as-charged/comment-page-1/#comment-9472</link>
		<dc:creator>John Deck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Apr 2010 21:53:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ryanhealy.com/?p=1692#comment-9472</guid>
		<description>Depending on their personal and professional ethics, copywriters can choose how they deal with situational ethics. Except when an outright fraud becomes well publicized, copywriters remain behind the curtain. The question is how you want to conduct business and sleep at night. Because of anonymity, I am sure more than one copywriter has been tempted to take on a questionable situation.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In professional sales, my situation has been very different. You are the face for the company you represent. I have commented that when I make a sales call, all I really have when I walk in is my reputation and creditability. Just like in copywriting, it is reputation and creditability that you are trying to establish and build on to make the sale. If the sale goes sour regardless of the reason, it is the sales person that they will remember. And believe me, they will remember. I did a large six figure deal and the company was almost 6 months late delivery the software to the client. Years later, I bumped into the project manager and he remembered me. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;John Deck</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Depending on their personal and professional ethics, copywriters can choose how they deal with situational ethics. Except when an outright fraud becomes well publicized, copywriters remain behind the curtain. The question is how you want to conduct business and sleep at night. Because of anonymity, I am sure more than one copywriter has been tempted to take on a questionable situation.  </p>
<p>In professional sales, my situation has been very different. You are the face for the company you represent. I have commented that when I make a sales call, all I really have when I walk in is my reputation and creditability. Just like in copywriting, it is reputation and creditability that you are trying to establish and build on to make the sale. If the sale goes sour regardless of the reason, it is the sales person that they will remember. And believe me, they will remember. I did a large six figure deal and the company was almost 6 months late delivery the software to the client. Years later, I bumped into the project manager and he remembered me. </p>
<p>John Deck</p>
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		<title>By: Vicki  Flaugher</title>
		<link>http://www.ryanhealy.com/copywriters-guilty-as-charged/comment-page-1/#comment-9466</link>
		<dc:creator>Vicki  Flaugher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Apr 2010 21:33:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ryanhealy.com/?p=1692#comment-9466</guid>
		<description>I think another point worth looking at is the past behavior of the client. If you have first hand or verifiable information about the shady antics of the client, that&#039;s part of the picture too. The old-fashioned military based concept of &quot;just following orders&quot; isn&#039;t really that enlightened nor is it an excuse. A hired gun is just as culpable as anyone else in the process if they are aware of what&#039;s going on, or frankly could have been aware if they had bothered to not look the other way for the sake of the dollar.  So many internet marketers will pitch their ideas as good because &quot;it works&quot;, morals be damned. That&#039;s just not good enough anymore, IMO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think another point worth looking at is the past behavior of the client. If you have first hand or verifiable information about the shady antics of the client, that&#39;s part of the picture too. The old-fashioned military based concept of &#8220;just following orders&#8221; isn&#39;t really that enlightened nor is it an excuse. A hired gun is just as culpable as anyone else in the process if they are aware of what&#39;s going on, or frankly could have been aware if they had bothered to not look the other way for the sake of the dollar.  So many internet marketers will pitch their ideas as good because &#8220;it works&#8221;, morals be damned. That&#39;s just not good enough anymore, IMO.</p>
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		<title>By: walterdaniels</title>
		<link>http://www.ryanhealy.com/copywriters-guilty-as-charged/comment-page-1/#comment-9465</link>
		<dc:creator>walterdaniels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Apr 2010 21:28:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ryanhealy.com/?p=1692#comment-9465</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re right about the obligations to the &quot;employer,&quot; but you also have obligations to the reader (target). People take the copywriter &quot;at their word&quot; about the product/service. You say it&#039;s the greatest thing since the Microwave, and we tend to believe you. So, if you have any notion that it&#039;s really a piece of c--p, you shouldn&#039;t do the ad. The same way if the product or service is below average, don&#039;t try to make us think that it&#039;s better. &lt;br&gt;   People have a cynical attitude towards advertising and marketing, because for too long that&#039;s exactly what copywriters did.  It caused the prevalent idea that &quot;Advertising makes us by things we don&#039;t want.&quot; The truth is that Advertising does no such thing. It can do only one of two things. 1) Make us aware of a solution to a class of problems we didn&#039;t know existed. 2) Make people believe a solution exists, where it doesn&#039;t really. The first is both legal and ethical (usually), while the second is neither (always). &lt;br&gt;I say the first is unethical, when it draws a group&#039;s attention to a solution to a problem that they are unable to solve properly. For example, selling stock picking programs to the general public. Most people don&#039;t have money to lose, and little inclination to actually determine the truth of the offered program. The truth being that few if any can deliver on their promises, for any length of time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#39;re right about the obligations to the &#8220;employer,&#8221; but you also have obligations to the reader (target). People take the copywriter &#8220;at their word&#8221; about the product/service. You say it&#39;s the greatest thing since the Microwave, and we tend to believe you. So, if you have any notion that it&#39;s really a piece of c&#8211;p, you shouldn&#39;t do the ad. The same way if the product or service is below average, don&#39;t try to make us think that it&#39;s better. <br />   People have a cynical attitude towards advertising and marketing, because for too long that&#39;s exactly what copywriters did.  It caused the prevalent idea that &#8220;Advertising makes us by things we don&#39;t want.&#8221; The truth is that Advertising does no such thing. It can do only one of two things. 1) Make us aware of a solution to a class of problems we didn&#39;t know existed. 2) Make people believe a solution exists, where it doesn&#39;t really. The first is both legal and ethical (usually), while the second is neither (always). <br />I say the first is unethical, when it draws a group&#39;s attention to a solution to a problem that they are unable to solve properly. For example, selling stock picking programs to the general public. Most people don&#39;t have money to lose, and little inclination to actually determine the truth of the offered program. The truth being that few if any can deliver on their promises, for any length of time.</p>
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		<title>By: Michel Fortin</title>
		<link>http://www.ryanhealy.com/copywriters-guilty-as-charged/comment-page-1/#comment-9464</link>
		<dc:creator>Michel Fortin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Apr 2010 21:28:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ryanhealy.com/?p=1692#comment-9464</guid>
		<description>Kevin, you missed my point. &quot;Hunting&quot; may be considered immoral to a vegan or vegetarian. Not to everyone. And that&#039;s my point -- morality is different for everyone, as Ryan pointed out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin, you missed my point. &#8220;Hunting&#8221; may be considered immoral to a vegan or vegetarian. Not to everyone. And that&#39;s my point &#8212; morality is different for everyone, as Ryan pointed out.</p>
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		<title>By: Michel Fortin</title>
		<link>http://www.ryanhealy.com/copywriters-guilty-as-charged/comment-page-1/#comment-9463</link>
		<dc:creator>Michel Fortin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Apr 2010 21:26:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>That&#039;s what happens when you touch-type and respond very quickly, without editing, lol!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#39;s what happens when you touch-type and respond very quickly, without editing, lol!</p>
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