Internet Marketing Retires!

by Ryan M. Healy

in Business, Case Studies, Ethics, Internet Marketing, Seminars

Perry Belcher has just announced he is retiring — not from Internet marketing, per se — but from the business of teaching Internet marketing.

Now, I don’t know Perry Belcher, and I don’t know Ryan Deiss either (although I did share a table with him at a Big Seminar dinner one year while I talked with Scott Boulch prior to his  release of “The Death of Adsense”).

Neither do I know Perry’s true purpose for “retiring,” but let’s take a look at what Perry actually says.

On October 1, 2009, Perry Belcher writes, “Today I decided to end my career as an Internet marketing trainer.”

Okay, fair enough.

But you know, there are a few other Internet marketing “gurus” who have claimed they were either leaving Internet marketing for good, or that they were doing their last seminar ever (or whatever).

Mark Joyner and Matt Bacak come to mind.

Way back in 2003, Mark Joyner announced he was leaving Internet marketing. He put together a product bundle of all the software and info products he had ever created, sold it for a discounted-but-still-expensive price, and disappeared for a while.

But it wasn’t long before Mark was back. He created Simpleology and wrote three books: The Irresistible Offer, Simpleology, and Integration Marketing. These books have enjoyed strong sales due in no small part to the Internet marketing community.

Now let’s take a look at Matt Bacak.

Back in 2008, he announced that he was retiring from Internet marketing. He even registered a domain: MattBacakRetires.com. (Although you’ll find that the content that was once there has been deleted. If you doubt, you can type in “Matt Bacak Retires” into Google and you’ll find articles like this one that still link to the dead site.)

Matt Bacak’s “retirement” was attributed to the “fact” that some of his students had ripped off his system and begun competing with Matt directly. To “stick it” to these so-called thieves, Matt announced his retirement… and that you could get his $5,500 seminar for just $1.

Great story, but did Matt really retire? Not exactly…

I’m writing this post on Friday, October 2, 2009. And guess what Matt Bacak and Mark Joyner are doing together?

They are hosting a seminar on December 4-6, 2009. It’s called Survival Tactics for Tough Times, supposedly a repeat of a seminar Mark Joyner did in 2002. Here’s a screen shot:

Matt Bacak and Mark Joyner Host a Seminar

So two well-known Internet marketing “gurus” who publicly “retired” are now uniting to teach… Internet marketing??

There’s even a video on Facebook right now with Matt Bacak announcing this new seminar. Here’s a screen shot in case he deletes the video at some point…

Matt Bacak announces seminar on Facebook

Here’s the thing. I know we don’t have a large sampling here, but it seems IM “gurus” have a bad habit of retiring… and then coming back a year or two later. It also seems these “Internet marketing retirees” are birds of a feather who flock together — particularly at seminars in warm-weather locales.

Which raises the question: Will Perry Belcher do the same thing? Will his retirement “as an Internet marketing trainer” be a temporary thing? Is this just a gimmick so Perry can create scarcity… then come back in a year with something new?

I hope not, mostly because I’m tired of the whole “I’m retiring, now I’m back” schtick.

But let’s turn for a moment to why Perry is retiring right now. He says:

Secondly, while there are a great many people who have shown me a great deal of love, there are a few that have shown a heavy dose of hate and anger, partially because of my past. This group has unfortunately been much more vocal and harsh.

While I can take reasonable criticism, today I have concerns for my safety and the safety of family.

What is this “past” that Perry is talking about?

In a nutshell, Perry Belcher used to run a “health” company called Selmedica. He sold a number of supplements for a variety of health conditions. Unfortunately, the products were dubious (at best), and he used false advertising claims to sell them.

Long story short, he was arrested by local authorities, his assets were seized and liquidated, and he is now serving a 10-year probation.

Some people get upset when you bring this up because they claim Perry has “paid his debt to society.” Well, I guess that depends on how you define “paying your debt.”

Biblically speaking, if you steal from others — theft seems about the best description for defrauding people of money — then you must pay back double the amount you stole to make restitution and restore the victims of injustice.

If you pay back double what you stole, you have then paid your debt to society and ought to be treated like anybody else.

Going to prison, serving probation, having your assets seized and liquidated — these are man’s ways of doing justice. And while they are unpleasant for the criminal, they do nothing for the victims.

But that’s really just a side issue at this point.

Getting back to Perry’s stated reasons for throwing in the towel — among them “a heavy dose of hate and anger” — I think the real reason is Salty Droid and his acerbic brand of investigative journalism.

Salty Droid writes a blog dedicated to exposing Internet scammers, and he’s devoted a great deal of space to writing about Perry Belcher. Here’s a screen shot from October 3, 2009:

The Salty Droid

With Salty Droid on the loose, I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that Internet marketing itself was retiring!

Unfortunately, Internet marketing is like crack; it’s a hard habit to break. So don’t be surprised when Internet marketing comes out of retirement to host a seminar in a (warm weather) city near you.

In the mean time, Perry Belcher’s legal problems (and Salty Droid problems) bring up a timely reminder: be careful who you associate with on the Internet. It is all too easy for people to jump to conclusions (read: guilt by association).

Your thoughts? Sound off by leaving a comment below…

-Ryan M. Healy

P.S. Apparently, Howie Schwartz also announced his “retirement” from Internet marketing on August 21, 2009. We’ll see how long it lasts. My guess: He’ll be stage-speaking at IM events within 2 years.

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  • Iris
    I found it interesting what you said. But I want to know.. "Do the techniques work that Perry was talking about? I believe many people like me have purchased the programs. Are the techniques usuable?
  • Its a tough market to break into right now thats for sure.
  • Sam
    Excerpt from:
    Official Culture in America:
    A Natural State of Psychopathy?
    Laura Knight-Jadczyk
    http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/official_culture...


    Psychopathic behavior seems to be on the rise because of the very nature of American capitalistic society. The great hustlers, charmers, and self-promoters in the sales fields are perfect examples of where the psychopath can thrive. The entertainment industry, the sports industry, the corporate world in a Capitalistic system, are all areas where psychopaths naturally rise to the top. Some observers believe that there is a psychological continuum between psychopaths (who tend to be professionally unsuccessful) and narcissistic entrepreneurs (who are successful), because these two groups share the highly developed skill of manipulating others for their own gain. It is now being thought that they are actually the "same" but that the "unsuccessful" psychopath is merely flawed in their calculating abilities. They are unable to recalculate based on new actuarial data. Successful Narcissists might seem to be perfectly able to add to their actuarial database and "recalculate" and shift course and develop new subroutines based on ongoing input.
  • Ryan,

    Thanks for a well thought out article. I hadn't heard about Perry Belcher retiring. Mainly because I don't follow him, or too many other 'gurus' for that matter.

    I did know about his previous troubles and was surprised at that time to see some other supposedly 'honest' gurus so friendly with him. They immediately lost credibility in my eyes.

    And thanks to Mike Young. Having eaten a fine steak dinner with Mike and a couple others at the System Seminar in 2007 I can say he is a gentleman and a scholar. If I lived in his neck of the woods and needed a lawyer, I'd give him a call first.

    I didn't feel like you attacked Perry Belcher personally. Your article hit the nail on the head.

    It's likely Perry Belcher will emerge from the wreckage at some point in the future. And hopefully, he'll learn something from this experience.

    And Matt Bacak cured me of signing on the dotted line without reading the offer with a fine-toothed comb. I bought his $1 package. Then I realized I'd signed up for a forced-continuity program. His people did remove me from the program the first time I asked, so I don't think he's actually a scammer.

    But I purposely don't buy any product that has a forced-continuity program as part of the initial purchase. I don't care who's offering it and what it's about. If the program is so good and the continuing membership is that good, forced continuity isn't required in the initial offer.

    Sometimes it isn't all about the money. Although you wouldn't know it from so many of the 'gurus' out there.

    Hoping to never cross into the the 'grey area',

    Perry Droast
  • Thanks for the feedback, Perry. I appreciate it.

    Your point about forced continuity is a good one. I'll have to think about that some more. :-)

    Ryan
  • Once you've made your mark, earned your millions, lifted the trophy...

    Do you really need to hold another "Going Outta Business Sale"?

    John Elway didn't.

    Bret Farve does.

    Oh yeah, and then we have,Michael Vick...

    Some are forced into having another "Going Outta Business Sale".

    Some can't stay out of the game because of the high of competition.

    The great ones leave a legacy and set a standard for the next generation.
  • Dave
    You left out MJ, who spent a good portion of his recent induction ceremony into the NBA Hall of Fame ridiculing his former opponents.
  • I live in Denver, and one of the things that impressed me about Elway is that he really did move on and got involved in business. He started up some car dealerships that he later sold to AutoNation. A very smart move on his part.

    Ryan
  • Interesting choice of posts Ryan.

    We've seen the rock bands that have "retired" and then came back. Fans love the fact that "their bands" came back.

    But that might be because it's the fans that are reacting, and most of the bands that came back had quite a few fans.

    If Perry does come back, as Mark and Matt did...it will be his "fans" that react in a favorable way, and we'll see how many he has (and yes Perry does have them, while I'm not one of them).
  • Hey Joe,

    With Internet marketers, their "retirements" often seem too short to be called retirements. With rock bands, their retirements can last for decades.

    I think the fans react more positively to a "come back" the longer the band/individual has been in retirement. As they say, "Distance makes the heart grow fonder." :-)

    Ryan
  • Ryan,

    Enjoyed reading your post.

    Salty Droid (Jason) contends that a key reason Perry Belcher has "retired" is because Belcher has been caught violating the terms of is probation.

    Darren Monroe asked me to weigh in on this issue.

    You'll find my comprehensive analysis of Belcher's probation terms and the questions his conduct raises at the following link.

    http://www.darrenmonroe.com/wordpress/?p=3892#c...

    Best wishes,

    -Mike

    P.S. You can add Terry Dean to your list of retirees circa 2004. He returned to Internet marketing in late 2006. So far, I've been pleased with what I've seen from him post-retirement.
  • terrydean
    Yes. Mike is correct. I did retire from internet marketing for a while. I got really frustrated with the direction the market was going (and overwhelming myself by trying to do too much personally).

    I did not have a major going out of business sale. In fact I sold things to another marketer pretty quietly (signed a non-compete agreement for one year with them also) and simply left. So the only notice of it is if you were on my lists as we announced it as we moved over the business to him. Most people were quite surprised when it happened.

    So I can't speak of anyone else's business or their actions...nor do I want to. But I will say this...anyone who "retires" is not going to be happy with their retirement. It's boring (and this even applies to those at retirement age as the majority go into some type of depression pretty quickly in full retirement).

    So my opinion would be NO matter what intention he has right now, the likelihood is he will come back. The passion is in you even if it disappears for a while.
  • Just back from reading Darren Monroe's blog posts about Perry and your response regarding the parole terms.

    Your comment was especially enlightening. Also, Darren made an excellent point in his first Perry Belcher post:

    "Is Perry Belcher a guy that crosses the line and deals in grey areas? I think Perry might agree with me that he does. But what entrepreneur (especially online ) doesn’t? In the USA especially we are raised to NOT be entrepreneurial from the minute we started attending school. We (entrepreneurs) are by nature renegades all of us. But there are some lines you cross and some you do not. Perry is an excellent example of those limits."

    Source: http://www.darrenmonroe.com/wordpress/?p=2872

    For people engaged in persuasion, the "grey areas" are inevitable. They come with the territory.

    Ryan
  • Ryan thank you and Mike thank you for the mentions. Ryan if you have a class acts like super cool Gina P and Ben (won't) Settle (for the BS) in your circles then you indeed must be great people.

    This post was really great and needed. You came with a angle in detail that I thought was really interesting. I mentioned in my post that rappers do this all the time. But was unaware in detail how many people do this in the IM world as I usually refer to myself as an Online Entrepreneur / Marketer.
  • You're welcome, Darren. Glad you liked the angle. :-)

    And I totally agree: Ben and Gina are great people.

    I look forward to connecting with you more in the future.
  • Hey Mike,

    Too funny... I just responded to Steve Solem saying I wonder if Perry violated the terms of his probation...

    You read my mind!

    I'll check out your link. Thanks.

    Ryan

    P.S. Very true. I hadn't thought of Terry Dean.

    I wasn't following Terry when he sold off his business, so I don't know how he did it. But I'm guessing his initial retirement wasn't a sales gimmick. And his return was explained in detail, so seemed legitimate.

    I guess when an Internet marketer retires/returns, it's the manner in which they do it that's important.
  • steve_solem
    Interesting read Ryan and thanks for posting that here.

    Sadly I take everything I see online and off with a grain of salt, as retirement announcements like this, offers to "buy now...only 10 copies remain at this price" and the infamous infomercial plea "order within the next two minutes and we'll double your order...just pay separate shipping and processing" have been used and abused so long they mean absolutely nothing to me now.

    Add to that the ease with which testimonials and photo "proof" can so easily be doctored these days and there's not much that's really believable left - is there?

    Anywho - I really hope this is legit and not just a marketing ploy. If he is talking time to unplug and spend more time w/his family I commend him for that and wish him well.

    Thank you for an excellent post and to everyone that commented for a good discussion!

    All the best,

    Steve
  • You're welcome, Steve.

    Recently a guy contacted me about rewriting his sales letter, and I pointed out to him that his testimonials, persona, etc. all seemed fake to me. Not surprised that I still haven't heard back.

    And as far as Perry goes, it seems that he's truly retiring. He deleted his Twitter account -- poof. You can't find it anymore.

    My question is one of motive: it's highly possible he violated the terms of his parole and he's actually being forced to retire. In which case he's taking a forced retirement.

    Ryan
  • Ben
    "they kill off major characters every few years then somehow explain it away (Can anyone say Jean Grey? How many times have they killed her off now?")

    Colin, I'm disappointed in you.

    How could you NOT use the Superman example???

    And here I thought you were a true comic book fanboy... :)

    Ben
  • Oooooh boy. You probably don't want to hear this then... I've never read a DC comic in my life.
  • What? Superman died?? Tell me it ain't so, Ben!
  • Yes, dear Mr. Healy, Supes was killed back in 1993 (or was it 1992?)

    Then again, so was Batman recently, too.

    But, like Internet marketers, they don't "stay" gone for very long once sales start to dip...
  • LOL! That sounds like another Post coming on, Ben.
  • If I may "geek out" for a bit here. These so called "retirements" remind me of the superhero universe where they kill off major characters every few years then somehow explain it away (Can anyone say Jean Grey? How many times have they killed her off now?)

    The difference, of course, is there's much higher stakes involved when IM gurus "retire".
  • That's funny. Yes, in an ongoing series (like comic books), they've got to keep the tension high. Although, like you said, there are higher stakes in real life.
  • Ryan, I just always love reading your posts. I didn't realize so many net marketers had played the retirement game. I thought maybe Perry was inspired by Brett Farve or something!
  • Thank you, Gina.

    Turns out, there are a lot of Brett Favre's in Internet marketing. ;-)
  • martin_obrien
    I always found the retirement gimmick humorous and a little sad. I think the only Internet Marketing guru who announced his retirement then actually did it was Keven Bidwell. This tired charade is reflective of a brutally competitive marketplace. Fortunately there are some new players on the scene with really great ideas and teachings. Too bad these good ones are often drown out by these fading dinosaurs with their shenanigans.
  • I've never heard of Kevin Bidwell, and it makes sense given what you've said.

    And, yes, it is brutally competitive. Probably as bad as being an SEO company trying to get ranked #1 for SEO.

    Ryan
  • I have a lot of respect for you as a person of integrity and as a copywriter, Ryan - but I'm wondering why you appear to target Perry Belcher, out of the blue. Frankly, it's not your style. It took me aback.

    Tacky tactics such as you've described occur all the time in every aspect of internet marketing, as we all know too well. I think it's better to focus on what we ourselves do as business professionals and human beings, rather than pointing fingers at others. Keep the energy on the positive.

    And entertaining as he may be, Salty Droid leaves the building of "investigative journalism" and scuttles across the tracks straight for the tabloid shacks when he starts calling people puerile names like "Evil Jowls".

    The fact is, people do "retire" and then change their minds. They look a bit silly, if they do it too soon; and they lose credibility if it's too blatant a ploy. But the way to deal with that is to hit the "Delete" button.
  • Thank you, Marya. I appreciate your compliment. May I respond to your concerns?

    First, I actually rewrote this post a couple times because I didn't want to be overly harsh on Perry. I've made mistakes, too.

    That's one reason why I included Matt Bacak and Mark Joyner... so I wouldn't be singling Perry out.

    The reason I wrote about Perry at this moment in time is due to a) his announcing his retirement on October 1; b) my good friend of 7 years telling me in person that Perry was a con man, and c) my discovery of the Salty Droid web site.

    Does the Salty Droid carry it too far in his zeal for humor? Yes. That said, I feel like evidence is in his favor, no matter what tone he chooses to take.

    I don't plan on focusing on issues like these all the time on my blog, but I felt it was important to write about this particular issue at this time, especially for the newbies and kool-aid drinkers out there.

    Also, it's not the first time I've tried to expose what was going on behind the scenes. For example, see:

    Kevin Trudeau Controversy

    Is LifeLock Selling a Lie?

    Rick Butts Says Unsubscribe (from Anybody Who Promoted StomperNet)

    Thanks again for reading and commenting, Marya.

    Ryan
  • Thanks for your response, Ryan. I have followed all your posts, including the 3 you mention, and one of the things I've always admired and enjoyed is your courage in speaking the truth. However, this post - from where I'm sitting - felt as if you were targeting a person, not a scam (in spite of the mention of Bacak and Joyner.) Which is what surprised me. I admire and don't doubt your motive - trying to protect those new to internet marketing.

    Thanks for respecting my opinion. I continue as always to respect yours.
  • Jim
    Of course Belcher is a con man. Many of the so-called "gurus" are. They are like great "closers" everywhere. The internet is a great place for hucksters and sociopaths who prey on people's vulnerabilities and credulity. They just laugh all the way to the bank. Like all con men, they are charming, intelligent--or better, clever--and understand the aspects of human nature that correspond to their purposes. They are consummate actors. As the saying goes: "when you see the lion's teeth, don't think it's smiling." Sincerity is what they fake the best.
  • Hey Jim - Totally agree with what you said: "Like all con men, they are charming, intelligent--or better, clever--and understand the aspects of human nature that correspond to their purposes."

    Here's an article I wrote a year ago called "How to Spot a Con Man". You might enjoy it.

    http://www.ryanhealy.com/how-to-spot-a-con-man/

    Ryan
  • Jim
    Thank you, Ryan! I found your article excellent. For anyone interested in delving further into the topic, there is Martha Stout's "The Sociopath Next Door," and Lobaczewski's "Political Ponerology." There is also material available at Scribd.com on these topics--of varying quality.
  • Jim
    Sorry, Ryan. My reply was to the main post, not to your post. :-)
  • Lol - I'd not been to the salty droid site before - thanks Ryan.

    I wasted an hour or so of my life - but enjoyed it nonetheless

    Ian
  • You made out better than me. I think I've been reading for 2+ hours now.

    I think Salty Droid just became my favorite Internet marketing blog... in a single day. :-)

    Ryan
  • I.A.
    It became my favourite blog in a single day too...
  • I think I must read fast - I've devoured the entire site...
  • You may already know this (and I believe you do read faster than I do)... there are actually two sites:

    The old site: http://saltydroid.wordpress.com

    The new site: http://www.saltydroid.info
  • You know, I didn't know that.

    Bang goes another hour or so.....
  • Although MattBacakRetires.com implies that Matt himself was retiring, if you read that website when it came out, it said that he was "retiring" his course, the one that someone supposedly ripped off from him, the one he was selling for $1.

    I never saw where it said he was retiring, just retiring that course. You can argue over whether that domain name was deceptive.

    As for paying debts to society, it sounds like your complaint should be with the government. Perry had a lot of assets seized- where did that money go? To his supposed victims? Or to some misc government account?

    As far as I know, he complied with whatever the authorities told him to do in that case.

    As for the Droid, I wouldn't call it journalism, since most of it was stuff that Perry himself admitted publicly, via videos on YouTube and even when he spoke at events, plus it was written about in the press, so I'm not sure what was left to uncover about that situation.

    A real journalist does not make fat jokes about the people he covers. Can you imagine Brian Williams calling Bernie Madoff names like "Evil Jowls"? Great way to lose any credibility, as if anonymous people have any to begin with.

    Something tells me that even if he refunded every item he ever sold, his critics would still be slamming him.

    I've heard some lawyers say Perry could have been acquitted if he had gone to trial but chose to settle to get it over with, which a lot of people do... so since I never saw any of his health products or websites, I have no opinion on his situation beyond that.

    Frank Kern is another one who announced a few years ago that he was retiring from teaching Internet marketing, and that retirement obviously didn't last long, considering he came out with Mass Control and a host of other marketing products.
  • Chris - Thanks for your comment. I don't think I read the Matt Bacak site, so good to know he wasn't retiring, just his course.

    As far as Perry admitting his past -- he did and he didn't. I watched the YouTube video and it was very vague.

    If you want specifics, click the link that says, "false advertising claims." Basically, from 2002-2008, Perry's sites were making fraudulent claims. And not small fraud either, but blatant fraud.

    I don't think that's been publicized much.

    Also: Thanks for the reminder on Frank Kern. I'd forgotten that he'd "retired" too.

    Ryan
  • Insightful analysis Ryan.

    I especially appreciate your pointing out that Perry's "debts" to society have not been "paid." It's been a frustrating argument to hear 5 times a day for 9 months. The victims of these scams and crimes are REAL people who have suffered REAL harms, and they will never receive any compensation at all.

    A plea bargain {negotiated by a uber-high-priced lawyer} and probation, absolutely does not set things back to neutral.
  • Hey Salty Droid!

    Thanks for the compliment. And I totally agree: In America, "justice" is hardly ever justice to the victims.

    For instance, take the case of Bernie Madoff. He's been punished, but the victims who got scammed into investing money with him will never be made whole again.

    There's a BIG difference between punishment and justice.

    Ryan

    P.S. Keep up the good work on your blog. Some of the stuff you write cracks me up. :-)
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