Comments on: Naming Names vs. Calling Names

By: Jim Sansi

Jim Sansi — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 03:26:26 +0000

It's interesting though, if I was going to trash talk someone I would at least start it on my own blog before spilling into the comments on someone elses blog.

-Jim

By: Jim Sansi

Jim Sansi — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:26:26 +0000

It's interesting though, if I was going to trash talk someone I would at least start it on my own blog before spilling into the comments on someone elses blog.

-Jim

By: TatianaV

TatianaV — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:43:08 +0000

Exactly the stance that I would have taken Ryan, and the clarifications you made were “spot on” too. And if it doesn't make you popular for everybody, you are at least the hero of the voiceless mass of the “screwed by the gurus” growing crowd.

By: TheBrainTeacher

TheBrainTeacher — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 07:08:32 +0000

Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone. (Just thought I'd quote that first so you think I'm 100% trustworthy!) LOL Has anyone got a refund on Brunson's SIN1 and SIN2 products? It's a funny coincidence that the page that contains the refund requirements as per FTC requirements is broken. What a shame Russell Brunson can't process refunds at the moment! "To request a refund please review our refund policy at http://www.dotcomsecrets.com/policy. Once you have reviewed our refund policy please submit a ticket at www.customerhelpdesk.org Great policy before it was locked so you caouldn't copy and paste it and now it's gone! Did any of Russell Brunson's customer get a copy of DotCOmSecrets.com refund policy before it went broke?

By: MK Safi

MK Safi — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 03:05:25 +0000

I find the Internet marketing sub-culture to be very intolerant of the slightest deviations. That's why it's mostly stale and built on hype. Crappy websites, substandard products, unethical business practices and more. But you can't speak of any of that. Fall in line. Spread the love of hype.

So, thank you for your refreshing voice!!

By: Bryan Bliss

Bryan Bliss — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 20:09:14 +0000

I like and agree with Both Ryan and Michel and Sylvie Fortin but have a few distinctions to add.
I dont think the situation is quite so cut and dry or black and white.
I agree that mudslinging and namecalling is pointless or even self destructive.
but I think those of us that ARE educated in the sophistocated techniques and products being sold in our profession, we do have a personal moral responsibility both to our readers and to our own dignity to be impactful, not just vocal.

As educators, we know that theory, concepts and generalities only go so far in really empowering true learning for our students.
we need to use specifics, examples, case studies that people can really relate to for them to truly get the picture.
When people rely on us for advice and analysis, its our duty to be straight, specific, and documented.
I see Sylvie and Michels point,
very dramatically, how an accusation can actually go to strengthen the following of the accused.
That seems an even better reason for Not publicly calling out some people even more than fear of quick threats to legal retaliation.

I even agree with the words that people who label others do so to define themselves ( or something to that effect). it makes sense.

When I see people conducting business in a way that seems shady to me, I take pride in defining myself as
Better than THAT, better than them, better than Her.
I see clearly because I had to examine a specific case, the line that I will not cross, not even for a buck.
I think we all do that. its how we learn , how we grow, how we define whats important to each of us.

I appreciate and admire people like Ryan, Michel and Sylvie, even Rick Butts with the integrity and the guts to raise issues like these, especially because i know that without examples, without debate, without honesty and without recrimination towards the scammers and the blackhats, all of us in this industry suffer.

Cleaning up the crap, outing the fraudsters should have been happening even MORE vocally, More specifically, and More effectively, before the FTC and merchant accounts had to step in to make sweeping changes that impacted us all for the wrongdoings of a few rotten apples.

The more I learn, the less I trust.
it sure is fascinating to watch the psychology.
sometimes it just seems like high school with more money though.
thanks and take care
Bryan Bliss

By: Art Derfall

Art Derfall — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 19:45:36 +0000

It is a public service, especially at the four figure dollar level that's in play here. Without one person relating the problems he had with a marketing guru, others may not have come forth.

It should give everyone pause at the value of a package, seminar, mentoring program where price doesn't necessarily equate to value. If I lost the amount of money that was mentioned, I'd paint my car "scammer inside" and park in front of his house and let all the neighbors know why.

ART

By: chrisinprague

chrisinprague — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 19:03:31 +0000

Whilst I understand Sylvie's point and greatly respect her opinion, I still agree with your stance, Ryan. As a public service, some people need to be called out about specific, documented behaviour not generally 'dissed' because of a poor reputation. Calling people out over such specific behaviour will, even if the guilty ones ignore it or state that it's just a competitor badmouthing them, encourage others to avoid that behaviour and, perhaps even more importantly, may save the more gullible / innocent / niave / desperate from shelling out cash which they really can't afford / would be much better off investing elsewhere. Lastly, may I suggest a series of posts on where to find great free (low-priced) practical marketing info. that has helped you?

By: JosephRatliff

JosephRatliff — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 18:27:45 +0000

Here Here Ryan! Nice addition to this series of posts. I think we need to also (in addition to “naming names”) address the underlying behaviors causing the problem. I can see that happening in IM with the formation of industry associations that become a “must have” to gain credibility…much like NASE does for the automotive industry.

It's not a perfect system…but it does help to weed out “overnight mechanics”. ;)

By: Doberman Dan

Doberman Dan — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 18:22:58 +0000

"Should we have not called out Bernie Madoff â€” and let him continue his Ponzi scheme indefinitely? Should we have been silent as Robert Tilton exploited thousands of TV viewers every week?"

Good point there.

And good post. Big difference between name calling and naming names backed up with sources and evidence, like Ryan McGrath said above.

Keep up the good work, dude!

Dan