The Salty Droid dropped a bombshell this week by publishing select portions of a private phone call between Andy Jenkins and Jeff Walker in which they say some things that are not especially flattering for their public image.

I guess it could be argued that “all PR is good PR,” but in this case I have my doubts. Here’s the recording, in case you’d like to hear it.

Andy Jenkins and Jeff Walker Riff About the
Video Boss Launch, Salty Droid and Ken McCarthy

In case you don’t have 7 minutes right now, or you’d rather not be exposed to the swearing, here are a few of the highlights:

Audio Highlight #1

• “The fact is, [Video Boss] is not a magic bullet, even though we’re going to position some of it that way.” -Andy Jenkins

My comment: Not a good idea to intentionally overhype your product or consciously deceive your customers. Even worse to admit to it on a recorded call.

Audio Highlight #2

• “I’m going to be relying on Syndicate to hit this thing really, really hard.” -Andy Jenkins

My comment: This call is from circa January 2010, so The Syndicate has been around at least since then.

Audio Highlight #3

• “The Droid I’m sure will go ballistic, but he’ll go ballistic no matter what you do. [...] He is like a little pimple on our butt. He has no reach, never will have any reach, will blow himself up. He’s non-existent. He’s less a threat to us than Mike Long was. Far less a threat to us than Ken McCarthy.” -Jeff Walker

My comment: Salty Droid has no reach? That was wishful thinking even in January 2010. (His current Alexa ranking is 18,303.) And is Ken McCarthy more dangerous than the Droid? Possibly. More on that in a minute.

Audio Highlight #4

• “Just think about this, like, with the Droid. He’s saying we’re evil because we’re charging a lot of money for our product. And that’s why we’re evil. Which is like the most ridiculous thing because it’s not like we’re like holding someone at gunpoint and saying ‘give us your money.’” -Jeff Walker

My comment: I don’t think Salty Droid’s crusade is based on charging high prices (although that may be part of it). I think it has far more to do with the anticompetitive behavior of The Syndicate, which is essentially an Internet marketing cartel — a “good ol’ boys club.”

Is Ken McCarthy More of a Threat Than Salty Droid?

During the call, Andy and Jeff mention Ken as an even greater threat than Salty Droid. This has prompted a lot of people to ask, “Who is Ken McCarthy? And what is his part in all this?”

In case you’ve never heard of Ken McCarthy before, he has been teaching Internet marketing since 1994, longer than just about anybody else online. He is also the creator of the System Seminar, an annual Internet marketing training event.

Many of today’s gurus got their first chance to speak on stage at the System Seminar. As Ken points out, “Some did good things with the opportunity. Some leveraged the exposure into criminal enterprises which I’ve had nothing to do with.”

It’s not always easy to judge a person’s character when you first meet them. Sometimes you may know a person for a few years and still not really know them. So as soon as Ken realized some of the shady things going on, he warned his subscribers. Here’s what Ken says in his own words:

1. I was one of the very first people to teach Internet marketing and thousands of people learned from me…

2. Including many of the people who became members of the Syndicate.

3. When I realized what they were up to I very publicly warned my students and customers to avoid them, thus earning the Syndicate’s undying enmity.

So why is Ken considered a threat? Probably because of his credibility and his reach. If he really wanted to, he could make life miserable for the Syndicate.

Even if he could, it’s probably not necessary. After all, for nearly two years now, the Salty Droid has been wearing the mantle of “Chief Internet Marketing Muckraker.” And since his most recent post…

The Gurus Are Now Distancing Themselves from… Themselves!

Regardless of whether or not Ken McCarthy is the bigger threat, Salty Droid’s most recent sleuthing seems to have caused the usual suspects quite a bit of consternation. In fact, at least two of them have now written blog posts trying to recast themselves as paragons of virtue.

• Mike Filsaime has published a post outlining his “best practices” that will now govern who he will (and will not) promote. (I find this post a little bit suspect since it seems to me that Mike has in the past repeatedly violated his own best practices.)

• Frank Kern has published a post challenging his subscribers to not buy any advice for a month. (According to one source, Frank then emailed his list to promote the Kajabi launch a few days later.)

Even Rich Schefren, who hasn’t promoted major launches the last couple years, felt compelled to send out an email to his list explaining why he no longer associates with the Syndicate.

But Here’s the Strangest Part…

Probably one of the weirdest parts of all this is that Mike Filsaime publicly said he would “address” Salty Droid and essentially set things straight. He stated this on his “best practices” post linked above. But then, for some strange reason, he had second thoughts and deleted all references to Salty Droid/Jason Jones.

For the record, here are two of the things Mike said publicly on his blog:

Jason Jones is a sad human being and I pitty him. And you for following him. I will deal with him soon. Jason Jones will finally hear from me. Now go run to his hate blog and warn him about me. I will expose him for the low life he his. Go now minion, go run to your powerful OZ. Jason Jones, you reading this. Get your costume on and make your post. It’s my turn. A sad human being will now be seen for what he is.

And in a separate place:

Minions of Jason Jones. I have spent the better part of the day talking to the 5% of you that are coming from his blog to try to spin this and trash me as you stated you would on his blog. We had good comments coming from people. All of a sudden a minion posted my blog on his blog and you are all coming here now to trash talk the same things you are saying there. As I said, this week I will address Jason and his hate confused followers.

Then, on the night of October 5, 2010, Mike revised his blog post and all mentions of Jason Jones mysteriously vanished into cyberspace. Even Google cache can’t find them (although they are still reproduced in the comments on Salty’s blog). Here’s what SD wrote:

The Gnome just deleted all his references to “Jason Jones” and turned off commenting. [...] I’ll still be expecting that big expose Gnome :: I wouldn’t want you to disappoint all your fans :: you rockstar you.

So is Mike’s rebuttal still on its way? Who knows. At the very least, it appears it will be delayed. (UPDATE: I stand corrected. Mike has responded, just not on his own blog. He has responded on Mike Young’s blog: 8 Things You Should Know About Mike Filsaime)

Anyway… What do you think? Is the Salty Droid a real threat to The Syndicate? Or, as Walker puts it, is the Droid simply a “little pimple on [their] butt”? Leave a comment to add your two cents.

-Ryan M. HealySimilar Posts:

• Is Salty Droid Even Human?
• How Free Market Economics Really Works
• Jeff Walker: Disingenuous Damage Control
• Why SOPA and PIPA Must Be Stopped
• Disinformation, Subterfuge, and Propaganda

Late last week, on January 28th to be exact, four suspicious nominations were submitted to the recent post where I invited you to nominate your favorite Internet marketer.

After reading them, I suspected they were fake nominations. Here they are in the order they were received:

Comment #1

“TERRY KARLIN”

I would like to nominate Mike Filsaime.

His success speaks for itself. I’ve bought many of his programs through upsells.

Comment #2

“JOHN CARMICHAEL”

I am amazed that no has yet nominated the coolest IM guy ever: Frank Kern.

Frank is 100% down to earth, genuine, always over-delivers and completely devoted to customer service.

I love his videos and his laid-back attitude. His Mass Control 2.0 is awesome for any serious marketer. I was delighted to recently sign up for his monthly continuity program at only $297 per month. What a steal for such great material.

–John

For the record, “Terry Karlin” and “John Carmichael” both posted their nominations 7 minutes apart from IP address: 24.5.xx.47

But it gets better. Because then these two comments came in a few hours later:

Comment #3

“TERRY GOMEZ”

I would like to RYAN DIESS.

His Perpetual Launch model and software is sheer genius!

Through a clever piece of scripting you can make it look like you are giving a live webinar and hence capitalize on the “urgency” of a live event (cf. Jeff Walker’s Product Launch Formula) without the stress of actually delivering a live event. The software he provides completely automates the process and leads the viewers to believing whatever their active imaginations’ want. You can segment your list and mail to selected portions each week about the “event.”

His prior partnership with Perry Belcher, convicted felon, should not be held against Ryan.

Comment #4

“MARK PASSION”

My nomination for trusted, high integrity, high impact IM guy is Frank Kern.

Why? So many great products … and just view this super professional video on “The State of the Internet”: [link removed]

It’s rather long (about 30 minutes) but jam-packed with great information and just remarkable in what Frank says. It speaks volumes about his clear integrity and desire to make a difference for all of us in IM.

In a pattern nearly identical to the first two comments, “Terry Gomez” and “Mark Passion” both posted their nominations 12 minutes apart from IP address: 64.134.xxx.148

Digging a Little Deeper

It’s uncanny how similar the tone and even the words are in all of these nominations, isn’t it? Let’s examine some of the similarities.

First of all, there are the shared IP addresses. Both pairs of comments appeared on my blog the same day spaced a few hours apart.

Second of all, I find it humorous that while inventing four different people, our mystery commenter couldn’t even think of four different names. He had to use the name Terry twice: Terry Karlin and Terry Gomez.

What’s more, there’s “Kar-lin” and “Car-michael” used as last names in the first pair of comments. Obviously, the mystery commenter couldn’t use “Car-lin” and “Car-michael” — that’s too obvious. So a letter “K” was used in Terry’s last name.

Third, each of the four comments is completely anonymous. No gravatars. What appear to be fake email addresses used on all of them with the possible exception of Mark’s (he has come back to comment a few times).

Fourth: What’s most interesting of all is the similarity in word choice between John Carmichael and Mark Passion. Look at this:

“I am amazed that no has yet nominated the coolest IM guy ever: Frank Kern.” -John Carmichael

“My nomination for trusted, high integrity, high impact IM guy is Frank Kern.” -Mark Passion

Funny that both John and Mark like to use the acronym “IM” instead of spelling out Internet marketing. (Mark even uses the phrase a second time in the span of three paragraphs.)

Both John and Mark like to use a lot of superlatives. Their nominations are quite salesy and product focused.

In fact, Frank’s products are used as evidence of his character: “over-delivers,” “awesome,” “a steal,” “great material,” “great products,” “great information,” “remarkable.”

John and Mark really like the word “great,” don’t they? And is it just me, or do their comments sound more like thinly veiled sales pitches than genuine nominations?

Mark Passion’s Passion

Mark must not have liked how I flagged his comment along with the other three as being fake. He returned to my blog on Saturday night to try to defend himself. Here’s his comment verbatim.

Hi Ryan,

My entry to your excellent blog was NOT a fake!

Sorry to have to correct you, but my nomination of Frank Kern is quite legitimate. (As is that of my girlfriend for Ryan Deiss!). We wrote our nominations on the same laptop, right after each other given our joint visit to your blog. Is there something wrong with that?

I’m not sure what you hoped to achieve by publishing the IP address– Is that meant to somehow silence my voice and cancel my vote through some cloaked threat that you can hunt me down via a simple-minded IP lookup??

Please keep an open mind and please do allow everyone to link to Frank Kern’s simply remarkable “State of the Internet Address” at [link removed]

If you have some real evidence or verified data that Frank Kern should NOT be nominated, then by all means please post it publicly so that we can all see it and make up our own minds. Your censorship of the link smacks of totalitarianism. Let’s keep the web open for everyone to decide for themselves.

I’m sorry if my nomination offended you but I did follow your guidelines.

Thanks!

Mark

In addition to this response, Mark used his anonymous twitter profile (“TraderPassion”) to tweet my post.

But of course he twisted the truth to make it look as if I had christened myself “sheriff” to clean up Internet marketing. He also claimed I was preventing Frank Kern, Mike Filsaime, and Ryan Deiss from being nominated. See for yourself (click to enlarge):

None of Mark’s claims are true.

I have not anointed myself sheriff. I’m not trying to clean up Internet marketing. And I’m not preventing legitimate nominations.

I am trying to prevent fake nominations. Big difference.

In my opinion (and I could be wrong), all four of the nominations I’ve listed above are fake. And I’m not afraid to say it.

The Holes in Mark Passion’s Defense

In Mark’s defense of himself, he claims that he and his girlfriend were using the same laptop to read my blog, and that’s why the two comments came from the same IP address.

I don’t buy it.

Most females I know would not nominate a guy for his “sheer genius” and then immediately deliver a blatant sales pitch for “a clever piece of scripting” designed to fool would-be customers.

(Ladies? Can I get an amen?)

And what normal person comes out of nowhere saying, “His prior partnership with Perry Belcher, convicted felon, should not be held against Ryan.”

I also find it unusual for Mark Passion to be so passionate about promoting Frank Kern. This goes beyond a nomination. Twice he has attempted to link to Frank’s blog — the second time with the admonishment to “keep an open mind” and “please do allow everyone to link to” Frank’s blog.

Huh??

This is not the behavior of a normal person nominating someone.

Then there’s the issue of Mark’s Twitter account, TraderPassion. (Update: As of 2/2/2010, this Twitter profile has now been deleted.) Notice how Mark tries to spin the story to make the gurus look good and make me look bad.

Based on what I know about Frank’s products, it appears to me the person behind this is trying to turn this into a story about how Frank Kern, Mike Filsaime, and Ryan Deiss are really the good guys who’ve been unjustly attacked.

Frank did the same thing when he got busted by the FTC. He took the story and turned it into a selling point.

Last but not least, there’s Mark’s parting comment: “I’m sorry if my nomination offended you but I did follow your guidelines.”

Oh, yeah. That’s right. I didn’t say, “No fake comments.” So like any normal person, Mark thought it would be totally okay to pose as multiple fake customers and plug his favorite gurus’ products.

Disinformation, Subterfuge, and Propaganda

One of the problems with the Internet is the ease with which you can pretend to be someone you’re not. The temptation to be anonymous is too tempting a power for some.

If you’ve read the comments on Salty Droid, you’ll often see a dissenting voice appear. More often than not, it’s a guru engaging in some kind of subterfuge.

Back when people were finally becoming disillusioned with James Brausch (a.k.a. “Diego Norte”), James himself lead a campaign of disinformation on Crunch Gear to confuse people and make it look like he was really a good guy.

He even took the fight to a different web site and made false accusations against the author of the original post, John Biggs. Biggs then had to run a follow-up post to defend himself. The comments got so crazy on the second post that he was forced to close them. He wrote:

I’m closing comments because whatever Ponzi scheme these guys are running it’s clear they’re crazy as all get out.

Fortunately, there’s no army of interns leaving fake comments on this blog. At least not yet.

So far, it appears that the fake comments are coming from either Frank Kern, Mike Filsaime, Ryan Deiss, or one of their buddies.

Either way, it’s kind of sad that in the absence of legitimate nominations they’ve resorted to fabricating nominations so they’ll get on the list of ethical Internet marketing teachers.

Which, in case you hadn’t noticed, is a good way of making sure you’re not included on the list.

-Ryan M. Healy

P.S. Mark Passion tried to make the argument that censoring his comment “smacked of totalitarianism.” Let me point out that propaganda is a technique much favored by totalitarians. Hitler, Stalin, and Mao Tse-tung come to mind.

So when you think about it, my censorship of Mark’s propaganda is fighting fire with fire. A totalitarian technique requires a totalitarian response.

P.P.S. Contrary to the recent propaganda, legitimate comments are welcome. Post one below.
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